Musician And Spiritual Counselor Cindy Lora-Renard Talks With The Indie Spiritualist.

December 27, 2010 by Chris Grosso

Cindy Lora is an innovative and extraordinary talent blending an eclectic mix of Visionary/New Age, Alternative Pop and meditative sounds with contemporary beats to create a unique style. Her sultry vocals, creative lyrics, and primal rhythms produce a state of mind which takes the listener to higher places where courage, wisdom, and passion can transform.

Born into a family of teachers and musicians and raised in the Midwest, Cindy was exposed to music early in life. Introduced primarily to the classical genre during her early years, Cindy wanted to branch out and explore other styles which would later prove to be her authentic path. As she developed herself emotionally and spiritually, her musical talents matured with her.

Cindy is also a pianist and graduate of California State University, Northridge, with a B.A. in Psychology and a Minor in Music. She has also completed her Master’s Degree in Spiritual Psychology from the University of Santa Monica. (

 The Cindy Lora-Renard Interview

TIS: Your music is known as being very meditative, and even healing, so I was wondering if you could talk about any of the spiritual processes involved in its creation?

CLR: Well when I first started getting into this kind of music, I noticed myself starting to grow spiritually. I started to get more interested in healing music and artists like Enya and Loreena McKennitt because I thought they were really spiritually connected and that attracted me. So I began exploring healing and meditative kinds of music. I’d say as far as processes go, I consider music to be my channeling. My process is really that I have no rituals or anything that I intentionally do. I try to allow spirit to move through me and feel at times that while I’m sitting at a keyboard, something else is doing the work and it just flows. I also dream ideas. I dream melodies and lyrics, and when that happens, if I’m smart, I get up and write them down.

TIS: Haha, so if you wake up while that’s happening, you literally get up and write the ideas down?

CLR: I have a tape recorder by my bed that I keep just for that reason, sometimes I’ll speak them, or even sing a melody into the tape recorder. Sometimes when I sit down at a keyboard, memories from my dreams are triggered and become much clearer to me, so I work with that and it usually just flows. I find myself doing what the Hindu’s call “being in your Dharma”, which translates into righteous duties, like if you’re following your Dharma, it’s the energy that does the work. So I feel like when I’m at the keyboard creating, that’s what’s happening. It’s effortless and just comes right through me. The main thing is that I get out of my own way and just allow it to come through without forcing anything to happen.

TIS: I’m kicking myself right now wondering why I hadn’t thought of that, as I’m a musician too and that could have saved me a lot of frustration.

CLR: Well you know, I’ve heard of a lot of artists like Billy Joel for example, dream their musical ideas.

TIS: Sure. I’m no Billy Joel, but that’s happened to me on occasion. It’s awesome though that you have these musical dreams and elaborate on them. So changing topics a bit, you have a Master’s Degree in Spiritual Psychology and work with clients in spiritual counseling and hypnotherapy. Can you tell me how spiritual psychology differs from traditional psychology, and the different approaches you would take in working with clients?

CLR: Yeah, that’s a really good question. Spiritual psychology recognizes that there is a spiritual dimension and that it’s a very important part in one’s healing process, and the healing of our illusions of separation, whereas traditional psychology doesn’t delve very deeply into the spiritual dimension at all. It’s more about identifying the problem and then fixing it through external means. Spiritual psychology takes a more proactive approach and encourages people to access their own inner wisdom, and through issue resolution, accessing one’s own abilities to solve their own problems. At the University of Santa Monica where I received my degree, they would describe spiritual psychology as the study of human evolution and consciousness. I like to take it further and say that what I think human evolution really is, in the context of spiritual psychology, is it’s really awakening to who you truly are. It’s not so much evolving into something, because we’re all already perfect. It’s very similar to A Course in Miracles actually, and how it talks about identifying and owning your projections, as it’s all coming from you, not at you, and practicing forgiveness. These are all thing spiritual psychology addresses. I think there’s a really big distinction, whereas traditional psychology is not so much about empowering an individual. At least that’s what I believe.

TIS: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You also mentioned A Course in Miracles, and I was wondering if you could tell me what led you to that “spiritual path”?

CLR: Well I’ve known about the Course since I was in my late teens/early twenties, but it wasn’t until around my mid-thirties that I actually started studying it. My mother was doing the workbook of the course before I was, and she was always talking about the lessons. She was a big influence in my getting started. She’s also the one who brought Gary’s book The Disappearance of the Universe home for me to read. She actually read it first, and then gave it to me to read, which is another story in and of itself. I read his book and felt so connected to him and the material, and felt guided to do the Course full on, to do the whole workbook. That was about six years ago that I actually started it.

TIS: Yeah, his book had a very similar effect on me. I’d try to read the Course off and on for a few years, but after reading Disappearance, I was able to actually begin comprehending the material. And speaking of Gary, he often talks in his books about being a musician, so I was wondering if you guys ever write music together?

CLR: Actually, at the beginning of 2010 we started performing music together at all of our workshops. We also just completed a full length CD together in the studio. We haven’t written a song together yet, but we do write separately. On our CD I wrote an original, and Gary wrote an original, and then we perform some of our favorite cover songs as well. I think we’ll be writing songs together in the future though.

TIS: Cool. Can you tell me a few of the cover songs that are on the album?

CLR: Yeah, we actually put a bunch of the songs we perform in the workshops on it including Amazing Grace, Mary Did You Know– which is usually sung around Christmastime, but we just thought it was a very beautiful song to include. There’s also a song from The Beatles called Tomorrow Never Knows, and there’s our two original songs. Gary’s is called Lay with Me and mine is called Living the Dream. We also do a Dan Fogelberg song called Longer as well as a I’ve Been Everywhere which Johnny Cash did a version of. Oh and The Sound of Silence by Simon and Garfunkel.

TIS: Awesome. Sounds like a great mix. I’m a huge Johnny Cash fan so I’m excited to check that out. So Gary mentioned during our interview together, that the two of you were writing a book as well. Can you tell me about that?

CLR: Yeah, the only thing I can’t give you is the title as we want it to be a surprise, but it is going to be about relationships, specifically how to achieve and maintain intimacy in your relationships. It’s going to be geared towards couples, but anyone, even if you’re not in a relationship, will benefit from it, because a relationship with yourself is just as important as with a partner. There’s really all sorts of relationships including your relationship yourself, your partner, the environment etc, and these are all important aspects that we’re going to cover. We’ll be using stories from our own relationship and we’ll also be coming from the perspective of A Course in Miracles with the book. We’re not going to be quoting a lot from it, but we’ll be coming from that thought system, and how to teach people to maintain their connection with their source while they are in relationships with others. How to come from a place at cause, so they don’t have to feel like they’re victims of circumstances, and that’s really empowering to individuals, so we’re really excited about it.

TIS: Sounds great. Is there a tentative release date for it?

CLR: Not yet as we’re still in the beginning stages, but we’ll certainly let people know once it’s available.

TIS: Right on. So with my last two questions, I wanted to talk a bit more about Metaphysics and Ascended Masters, and ask if it’s sort of trippy knowing that you’re “Arten” from Gary’s books, or even that you were St Thaddeus in a previous incarnation?

CLR: Yeah, well to be honest, it wasn’t until I actually read Gary’s second book Your Immortal Reality that I knew. There’s a chapter in it called “Who’s Arten”, and though I’d met Gary previously, he didn’t mention anything to me about being Arten, and I didn’t have memories at that point either. When I read that chapter though, I recognized the conversations. It was like I’d heard the conversations before, and when Arten was describing himself in this lifetime, like being a woman etc, he was basically giving Gary hints about who he was in this lifetime, and that really resonated with me. So intuitively, I started to realize it was me. It made sense because I had a lot of dreams about Jesus up to that point, and I didn’t know why, but I felt very connected to that lifetime two thousand years ago. I couldn’t put it all together, but when I read Gary’s book I thought, hmm, I think this is me.  So it wasn’t until a few months after that that Gary and I had that discussion, and when he told me I was Arten, we kind of said it at the same time. It really wasn’t that much of a shock to me because it made sense through the dreams I’d been having and my feeling of moving towards the end of reincarnation, like I didn’t have a whole lot left to do. I’ve always felt that through my life and I really didn’t know why. Another thing I learned about Thaddeus is that he was a singer, a cantor in Jesus’ lifetime, and that really resonated with me as I’m a singer. He was also a drummer and I am too. There were just so many similarities, and there’s a lot more that will be revealed about that in Gary’s third book. So I would say at first, it was more a feeling of wonderment like wow, is this me? But then it all made sense, given my past history etc.

TIS: Wow. So you mentioned Gary’s third book, and I know it’s content is still pretty much under wraps, but can you tell me if you, in your current incarnation, are going to be discussed more in it?

CLR: Yes, he’ll be talking more in detail about how we met and what that was like. He’ll also be talking about various lifetime’s and the lessons of Arten & Pursah in their future lifetime, as well as both of our personal, present day lessons, plus Thaddeus & Thomas and their lessons as well. So that should be really interesting.

TIS: Definitely. Well in closing, one other question I have to ask is, have Arten and Pursah revealed themselves to you? 

CLR: No, they haven’t and I think the reason for that is in Gary’s first book, I believe they said they were only going to appear to him, and the reason they gave for that was if they appear to a lot of people, they were concerned about the message getting distorted over time. It’s sort of like that game telephone, when you tell so many people, the message can get totally lost, and changed from the original message, and I think they’re trying to stay away from that. However, Gary sometimes says that he wouldn’t be surprised if they revealed themselves to me sometime, since I am Arten. They may make an exception. I do trust that they know what’s best though, so I never really question it. So you never know..

TIS: So is it like his first book, where they would appear when he was alone and his ex wife was out?

CLR: Yes, it’s kind of funny. I’m usually getting my hair done when they show up because it takes around three hours. I kind of joke in my mind with them saying “Ok, I’m going to get my hair done so you can come over now”, and that’s usually the case. I’ll get home and Gary will tell me, yeah, they came over today, so I kind of make a joke about it now.

TIS: Well thanks for being a good sport and answering all of my questions. Is there anything in closing I didn’t mention?

CLR: Well the CD that Gary and I are working on will be ready in February, and it will be available on our website, where they can get all of the information. And Gary will be giving information very soon about the release date for his third book.

TIS: Great. Thanks so much for your time. I’ve loved speaking with both you and Gary!

CLR: Absolutely. It’s my pleasure.

Visit Cindy Lora-Renard’s Website Here

Visit Gary Renard’s Website Here

If You Liked This, You May Like These:

The Indie Spiritualist Interviews Gary Renard

The Indie Spiritualist Interviews Father Thomas Keating

The Indie Spiritualist Interviews Lama Surya Das



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Chris Grosso is a writer, public speaker, mental health youth group facilitator, and author with Simon & Schuster. He also writes for Revolver Magazine, Fangoria, and has spoken at a bunch of fancy-schmancy festivals and conferences (as well as even more events that were significantly less than fancy-schmancy). Chris's podcast, The Indie Spiritualist, is hosted on Ram Dass's Be Here Now Network.
  1. Aanel says:

    Great interview, thanks!

    LOL at “getting my hair done”!

    • Winona Joy says:

      Thank you both for the interview. I loved it.

      I so hope that: In Amazing Grace you used the work “Soul” instead of “wretch.”

      I guess I will have to buy the CD to check it out. Remember Cindy, I spoke to you in Portland Oregon about the words?

      A long time Course In Miracles student and group leader; located in Seaside Oregon. I LOVE YOU ALL. Winona Joy

  2. As a songwriter,artist/singer and student of ACIM i truly enjoyed this interview with Cindy.
    I also am a avid follower of Gary’s work and owe much gratitude to him and the whole “JESUS UNNDERGROUND”

    Thank you for your contribution to bringing the lovely articles and interviews to my attention on your site.
    LOVE and always the best,

  3. Marc Waage says:

    Good afternoon CLR,
    Great gifts are always amazing….. Keep following your dreams and allow the flowing.
    Does your composing creation occur while sitting at a piano? The computer industries have adapters for the piano keyboard that will record and save the notes that you play. Then just print out the data…..
    This is an easy way to record the flowings of your creations. Blessings, Marc

  4. Denise Burley says:

    SO lovely is our sister Cindy…Thanks for sharing Gary…Always love and showers of blessings dear brother <3

  5. Karen Jordan says:

    Thank you ~